BY: ADHOKSHAJA DASA
This article is in response to the posting of March 5th on Sampradaya Sun “ISKCON to Take Legal Action against SHKMS.” ISKCON South India Divisional Council Chairman and ISKCON Hyderabad President, Vedanta Chaitanya das, has irresponsibly and in a state of frenzy aired many baseless accusations. This particular act comes as no surprise, as he is known for high-handed decisions and raising false charges against devotees. He has time and again proved to be a very good attack dog of the Bogus unauthorized guru regime of ISKCON.
I have served in Hyderabad temple from 2003 to 2005 under his leadership, and have first-hand experience of working with him. I wish to clarify some of the issues raised by him. My wish is to clarify so that the readers are not misled.
What is SHKMS?
SHKMS is the Sri Hare Krishna Movement Society, which is as affiliate of ISKCON Bangalore (regd 1978). It is an independent society governed by its own board. The governing body consists of some senior full-time devotees of ISKCON Bangalore Group, like Madhupandit dasa, Chanchalapathi dasa, Stoka Krishna dasa, Chitranga Chaitanya dasa and others.
Under its banner we have various centers all over India. The Hare Krishna Movement already has independent centers in Chennai, Jaipur, Delhi, Mumbai, Vrindavan, Tirupathi Ahemadabad, Puri, Hyderabad and Vishakhapatnam. Apart from this there are many centers in Karnataka which are associated with it. HKM centre was recently opened in Hyderabad and has been functioning for the past 6 months at the following address: No 12-71-1, Sri Krishna Nilayam, Shanti Nagar, Patancheruvu, Hyderabad-502319.
Under the auspices of HKM Hyderabad, Akshaya Patra programme is currently running and feeding prasadam to over 25,000 children everyday. This programme has been operational since October 2008. It is going to be scaled up to 40,000 children shortly. There are plans to scale the program to over a lakh of children.
Recently, the Government of Andhra Pradesh, through its Endowments department, allotted 5 acres of land to HKM, Hyderabad. This sanction was given after seeing the activities of ISKCON Bangalore and its allied centers, especially the program of Akshaya Patra. So it is far from truth to say that SHKMS is a phony organization and its leaders are caught in a fraud network.
ISKCON Hyderabad – A Brief History
ISKCON has been in existence in Hyderabad for the past 3 decades. The temple has Sri Sri Radha Madan Mohan Deities personally installed by Srila Prabhupada. But the sad thing is that after the physical departure of His Divine Grace, the temple has made little progress. In fact, the temple has been riddled with factions and infighting ever since the bogus guru regime has taken over the temple. ISKCON as a movement is not respected very much in Hyderabad, for its reputation has been wiped out due to various nefarious activities of some of its past and present inmates. It has a very bad record in the eyes of the public. The life patrons are very much unhappy with the treatment meted out to them. Besides all thi,s the leaders of the temple are being changed very often.
It was earlier lead by Mahasundar dasa, Samba dasa, Srivatsa dasa, Vishwakeerthi, and Satya Gopinath dasa, and the list runs on and on. Vedanta Chaitanya was the recent addition to the list of leaders, but the state of the temple and its activities have not improved much. Vedanta Chaitanya is doing very little with respect to Book distribution and Prasadam distribution. The Hyderabad temple cleanliness is pitiable. Rats will be running in the kitchen. One Pujari does Arati in all the 3 altars during Rajabhog Arati, Balya bhog Arati and Shayana Arati. This is the standard in Hyderabad temple.
At least 9 devotees have left Hyderabad temple including myself, because of his lack of care for devotees and his monarchy. The devotees names are:
- 1. Krishnarchan dasa
2. Radhajivan dasa
3. Bhakta Raghavendra
4. Bhakta Venkat Reddy
5. Bhakta Prabhakar
6. Bhakta Venkat
7. Adhoksaja dasa (myself)
8. Sridhar Srinivas dasa
9. Sanatana Goswami dasa (a Russian devotee who single-handedly was carrying out book distribution in Hyderabad temple for quite some time)
10. Abhimanyu dasa
11. Uttam Madhava dasa
12. Narahari Thakur dasa
I think we should give a round of applause to Vedanta’s management “skills.”
Virtually no new devotees have joined the temple since I left Hyderabad and joined Bangalore temple. He is afraid that if more temple devotees join, his monarchy will be disturbed. He is selfishly enjoying the property and position in Hyderabad temple, which is in the heart of the city and was established personally by Srila Prabhupada. Most of the congregation members are also very much fried with his dictatorship. Preaching to public is almost nil. Recently congregational devotees, mostly disciples of Radhanath Maharaj and Bhakti Vikas Maharaj, have sent a long list of complaints to the GBC about Vedanta Chaitanya’s tyranny.
So in comparison with HKM and its allied centers, the contribution of ISKCON Hyderabad to missionary activities as envisioned by Srila Prabhupada is nothing. Why should they have any objection to someone establishing another temple when they are not able to carry on with their activities as Srila Prabhupada desired? It is no wonder that the government felt happy to allot land to HKM rather than allot the same to ISKCON Hyderabad.
What HKM did in 6 months could not be achieved by ISKCON and its “power packed” group of so-called gurus for the past three decades. They were busy with bogus guru regime glorification and group-ism. Even though the temple has very few devotees, it has that many numbers of groups. Even the congregation devotees are divided amongst the respective gurus. The congregation is having bitter fights with Vedanta Chaitanya since the time he took over as President.
Vedanta Chaitanya earlier was a very strong advocate of Srila Prabhupada being the only guru of ISKCON. Please see this article for evidence of the above. In that article you will find Vedanta questioning HH Jayapataka Swami on Srila Prabhupada’s Will.
Vedanta Chaitanya shifted his position to accepting the unauthorized guru camp in ISKCON for getting and maintaining the position of President of ISKCON Hyderabad. He is in strong cohorts with Romapada Swami who is defending him in spite of his various nefarious activities. I shall bring out a list of all those activities with evidence shortly, in another posting. But for the time being, I request the readers to go through this link, in which various devotees have expressed their feelings about Vedanta Chaitanya, Satya Gopinath, and other devotees linked with them.
It is very unfortunate that this very same Vedanta accuses Chanchalapathi Prabhu of stealing ISKCON Land in Bangalore. There cannot be a better example of people living in glass houses, throwing stones at others.
Contrary to Vedanta Chaitanya’s assertion, Chanchalapathi Prabhu has successfully led the ISKCON Bangalore Group of temples as its Vice President. All these temples are flourishing with over 300 full-time devotees and thousands of congregational members all over India. All of them vouch for his uprightness and know that he has not stolen any land in Bangalore. He has also stood up against the GBC and has not changed his stance that Srila Prabhupada is the only diksa guru for ISKCON, in spite of repeated threats from GBC.
The “stealing” which he is referring to is linked to the ongoing court case between ISKCON Bangalore (Reg 1978) and ISKCON Mumbai (Reg 1971). In this said case, the Honorable High Court of Karnataka, later endorsed by the Supreme Court of India, has given an interim order stating that the ISKCON Bangalore is indeed an independent legal society. I quote below the Order of the Honorable Judge of the High Court of Karnataka:
“On Consideration of the materials on record, I have come to the conclusion that the plaintiff [ISKCON Bangalore] which is a separate legal entity has produced materials which prima facie show that it has been in existence as a legal entity since more than 20 years and it has got right to maintain and administer its properties. [...] The Plaintiff being a legal entity under the Karnataka Societies Registration Act has got its own bye-laws and it has got a Managing Committee to administer its properties and the defendants could not show that under the Karnataka Societies Registration Act, any action has been taken against the plaintiff or its members by the Registrar for any illegal activity etc.”
[Judgment of the Honorable Justice M. Farooq, 20/4/2002]
The fact that ISKCON Bangalore has the right to govern itself and not be under the bogus guru regime is being interpreted by the unauthorized gurus as stealing. Vedanta Chaitanya seems to have lost his independent discrimination and has become a blind follower of the bogus gurus, who think that all properties of Srila Prabhupada belong to them. Chaitanya and Satya Gopinath, being very good faithful dogs of the GBC, have resorted to airing the same views held by ISKCON Mumbai (Regd 1971) and its Bogus Diksa camp.
In fact, it is the Gurus who have unauthorisedly usurped the position of Srila Prabhupada as the sole guru of ISKCON. It is the GBC and its gurus who, through the medium of ISKCON Mumbai (Regd 1971), are enjoying the properties and disciples and their worship, which actually belongs to Srila Prabhupada. Thus stealing is done not by Chanchalapathi Prabhu or HKM, but by ISKCON Mumbai and its blind followers, like Vedanta Chaitanya, Satya Gopinath, and company. Prabhus, please be careful, for guru bhogis do not go far in their spiritual quest.
What is their problem if properties and preaching are managed by another set of devotees, with Srila Prabhupada as the center? What is their problem if it is independently and nicely managed? Is it that their hearts are lusting after the properties in which Srila Prabhupada is glorified in his true position? Why do they want to control the properties of ISKCON when they are not willing to acknowledge the true position of Srila Prabhupada? If they have a right to build temples and preach, then ISKCON Bangalore and HKM also have a right to build temples and preach, too. Mind you, HKM is an affiliate of ISKCON Bangalore (Regd 1978) and not ISKCON Mumbai (Regd 1971). If ISKCON Mumbai can open its branches and affiliates in places where ISKCON Bangalore has its centers, then by law of fairness, ISKCON Bangalore should also have a similar privilege.
Conclusion
It is very apt to quote the following letter of Srila Prabhupada in this context:
“…So why they are obstructing this program? What is the harm to them? … So what is their tangible objection?”
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Sripad B.R. Sridhara Maharaja, Los Angeles, 6 June, 1976.
In the above letter, Srila Prabhupada was requesting his godbrother B.R. Sridhara Maharaja to instruct some his own godbrothers, like Madhava and Damodar Maharajas, to stop their envious activities. This letter was sent in the context of Madhava and Damodar Maharajas trying their very best to obstruct allotment of lands in Mayapur to ISKCON.
ISKCON, under the leadership of the unauthorized gurus, has tried to their very best to stop all efforts centered around establishing Srila Prabhupada as the sole diksa guru of ISKCON. HKM is trying its best to build many centers in all major cities of India, with the understanding that Srila Prabhupada is the Acarya of the Hare Krishna Movement. The main feature of these HKM and other ISKCON Bangalore affiliated centers is that it is directly Srila Prabhupada centric. He is not a figurehead, as it is in the current ISKCON Mumbai (Regd 1971).
This attempt by ISKCON Hyderabad to mislead the press and other followers is a continuation of their agenda to put up as many road blocks as possible in establishing Srila Prabhupada centric temples. We can easily draw parallels between envious godbrothers of Srila Prabhupada like Madhava Maharaj and the current bogus ISKCON guru regime, which cannot do anything good but can only put obstacles on Srila Prabhupada centric efforts. What do they gain by putting obstacles before such efforts?
In my posting I am have not been happy in bringing out many personal criticisms of Vedanta Chaitanya and others, but in view of the ranting by them and in the context of some of the issues they have to brought out, it becomes necessary that some personal issues (like their management incapability, etc.) are put forth. This is done only with a view that the readers understand the real character of people who are making accusations. This will help the readers in clearly making out that Vedanta Chaitanya et al. are raising baseless allegations. Otherwise, the readers of their postings will be misled. With higher interest in mind, I had to mention some personal issues and I hope the readers it in that light. I personally have no grudge against them.
Your servant in the service of Srila Prabhupada,
Adhokshaja dasa
To,
The GBC People!
Can any one in this world imagine distributing food for just 1,000 people for just one day? But ISKCON Bangalore is doing this in a massive way, every day by distributing to 1 million souls. And they are not distributing just food, but prasadam. This was the dream of Srila Prabhupada. And you all are trying to stop it.
Stopping philanthropic activity of food distribution itself leads one to the hellish planets. And just imagine if one tries to stop the prasadam distribution, where that man will be put into. Only Krishna knows!
Lord Krishna gave off His entire army to Kauravas. Just one Krishna was on the side of Pandavas. Similarly Srila Prabhupada’s brands are all there with GBC, including “Food for Life”. What is the score of that today? If you want to beat Akshaya Patra, distribute Krishna prasadam to 2 million souls a day. That is your real guts, even materially and spiritually!
In a running race, many people run. The best runner progresses first. Rest all try their best. But they do not pull the first person’s leg and try to ground him. This is not done even on material platform. But what are you doing?
So you have already stolen all brands created by Srila Prabhupada in the name of “Gurus”. Its ok. So try to bring them up. Show your guts or dhamm or Krishna Bhakti to lead it (or even just to preserve it). Or else keep quite. Don’t try to pull who are running first.
There are two kinds of people supporting the GBC and present in the GBC:
1) Unknowingly and innocently, misled and trapped souls.
2) Souls to plunder or loot the money and/or gain fame by becoming guru in the name of ISKCON.
If you belong to category 1 and believe your guru system is correct, then boast your guru and spread your guru all over the world. No issues. We don’t care and interfere. But why do you want to come and interfere us? What is the reason? If you believe something, then follow yours! WHY ARE YOU DISTURBING US? We are not doing anything in the name of “Food for Life”. We are aloof and doing some good thing in the name of Akshaya Patra, which causes no where disturbances to you!
If you belong to category 2, as a Karmi I am saying this, do not loot, not only in the name of ISCKON, but in any spirituality’s name. Go and loot directly the banks, companies or start finance companies and cheat. But don’t do this in the name of ISKCON or in any other religion’s name. The reason is very simple. You are not only looting, but shaking the faith of others. Imagine what will be the faith of neophyte devotees if you do like this? They loose faith on ISKCON actually. Not on you!
This I am writing out of pain, after hearing about our temple devotees and few so-called “our boys”, on whom we had great esteem, were actually spying low-classly inside our ISKCON Bangalore. They were all caught red-handedly! It was also shocking for me that how can their consciousness be so third class, lesser than chandalas’, to create dirty blogs, with vulgar words! When my parents (who were also following Krishna consciousness) who heard this news, they said, “If there are people like this in ISKCON itself, whom to trust and whom not to trust in this world?” The faith shakes! Beware GBC!!! Krishna will not forgive you!!!
Again and again I am repeating, if you feel your guru system is correct, go ahead. We don’t interfere! But don’t meddle with us (ISKCON Bangalore) and spoil others’ life, by destroying the neophytes’ faith! Krishna will not leave you! Krishna will not let you! Krishna will not forgive you!
Finally, the books of Srila Prabhupada are so strong that even shaking faith of my family, by His will and Srila Prabhupada’s mercy, the one verse of Bhagavad-gita restored them to their original position on the same day. Hare Krishna!
- Balaji. A.
prabhuji, I want to mention one thing that currently ISKCON hyderabd is one the highest book distributors in the country and as far as the “topix” website, i can make a account and type them up. thats not a base. I have told to man and again, ritvik is deviant. I have suffient teachings of Srila Prabhupada to show it and hyderabad is not doing anything? 75 students base, 27 congregation family, 20 full time devottes, selling thousands of book every month, having nagar kirtan every day, distributing prasad. Please I request please give me Mdhu pandit prabhup’s number.I would like to personally meet you and discuss some thing.
Well, I would like to narrate my impressions when I visited ISKCON-Hyd. It was my first visit to Hyd and I had no idea of where is what. When I told the cab driver to take me to ISKCON, he asked me “what is that?” (in Telugu). I felt like hanging myself! I was like “How can you not know ISKCON?”
Anyways, in my poor broken Telugu, I explained to him about Prabhupada and his efforts in taking Lord Krishna’s glories to the Western world. So I still never knew why a cab driver, whose business is to know atleast all the important landmarks in the city never knew where ISKCON is. In contrast, any auto/cab driver knows what ISKCON-Bangalore is. All I need to do is tell them ISKCON (NB: when you say ISKCON, they do not mistakenly take you to the Jagannath Mandir). So even a semi-literate/illiterate auto-driver knows where to go when you say ISKCON.
Anyways, we finally reached Nampally station at a lane that bordered a side of the temple. To my horror, I saw a stench on that lane and also saw a white marble like structure. I said “No, this can’t be ISKCON, must be some Jain temple”. So, I asked some of the shopkeepers around and they pointed me to the entrance of the temple. I walked right in with delight only to come to a feet washing area that is as clumsy as a municipality feet washing joint. Well, that’s as clumsy as things can get!! More painful was the wall carving of the Lord and Arjuna when the latter was shown the Universal Form. Paint peeling off & dust gathering sums up things. (Correct me if I’m wrong, I don’t think any of the artwork has been re-painted after Prabhupada set up the temple.)In addition, there isn’t a proper footwear stand!!
Consoling myself, that one should not look at insignificant externals in cases of spiritual matters, I entered the temple hall to find myself the only person around-not a soul around, no devotee, no visitors, nothing! Mind you, it was about 5PM in the evening!! Ofcourse, the Deities are the best I’ve seen so far.
By now, I had realized that the same “Jain temple” is indeed ISKCON!! So yes, ISKCON-Hyd is doing a lot………………..to destroy Prabhupada’s movement!!
Yudhistir, what you are trying to do is spot the stars when the Sun is rising. This can only impress fools!
The activities which I said is still going on and thousands are witness. Just like a blind person can not see things does not mean that the world doesn’t exsits. Your viewing “Jain temple” doesn’t mean the temle is in bad condition. You can type thousands of pages, but just do a small service and show. Did you see the latest smasakra hall, with best features in it. What about being on the 10 highest BTG sellers? Saying things are way easier than doing it. Or if you are unhappy then why don’t you help the temple buy land to expand its activity? All bluff no stuff in your words
“Maharaj” Yudhistir, any sane person in his senses will know that the Hyd temple is in T.A.T.T.E.R.S.
As for the records & numbers you are quoting, let the temple first work on providing a cleaner wash area & chappal stand and put some devotees inside the temple!!! Let them work at making the institution a landmark in the city, something that attracts crowds. Then your samskar hall, this hall, that hall makes sense, otherwise it is just mortar & cement you are weighing.
As for all bluff & no stuff in words, you need to get back to the grass-root basics in reading SP’s books on the the status of a guru before you “bluff & no stuff” that rtvik is a deviant philosophy.
PAMHO,AGTSP.
Your arguemnt is too weak to be even argued. Chalpal stand, wash area,etc,etc. I don’t know if you have ever seen them. Or should I take a picture post them online? Now how do you want it to be automated with dryer along with one servant to wipe your hands? Its clean (atleast for public) nad the stand is also there.I have alreday mentioned the number of devotees, It just becoming too lame. I alreday mentioned all the activites and you are back to “chappal stand”. Great, Simply great.
Anyway, Srila Prabhupada emphsised mainly on 2 things “Book Distribution” and “Chanting of the holy name” for which “if the temple needed to be closed then it may be done so…”. So these 2 are going on brilliantly. I suppose that answers your question. As for as Ritvik theroy is concerned, it is deviant. There are sufficent questes and instructions, some of which I’m giving below.
“You, all my disciples, everyone should become spiritual master.”
22nd August 1973
“Prabhupada: Yes, through books and also personal. Because when you make a spiritual master you have got “personal touch”. Not that in “air you make a spiritual master”. You make a spiritual master concrete. So as soon as you make a spiritual master, you should be inquisitive.”
23rd September 1969
“I want to see my disciples become bona fide Spiritual Master and spread Krishna consciousness very widely, that will make me and Krishna very happy.”
2nd December 1975
“One should accept a thing as genuine by studying the words of saintly people, the spiritual master and the śāstra. The actual center is the śāstra, the revealed scripture. If a spiritual master does not speak according to the revealed scripture, he is not to be accepted. Similarly, if a saintly person does not speak according to the śāstra, he is not a saintly person. The śāstra is the center for all. Unfortunately, at the present moment, people do not refer to the śāstras”
C.C Madhya 20.352
Just send me your email address and I can send you the list of teachings of his REAL ORDER.
Your Servant,
Yudhistir
Yudhistir,
Well, my benchmark is the Bangalore temple. If that’s a problem, then I can’t help it. Maybe 5PM was just the “wrong time” to visit the Hyd temple?
You need to come to July 9, 1977 as well. It is also a date that existed! We all know that SP wanted his disciples to become spiritual masters. And why not, every spiritual master wants to grow the sampradaya. However, none of them were capable. They may have been good devotees but to occupy the Vyasasana-NO!!
Politely put, any guru in ISKCON other than SP, B.O.G.U.S. People are measured by their actions. We have had a good sample of gurus who have fallen more than karmis. As for those standing using SP as crutches, it’s only a matter of time that these bubbles will burst!
Lastly, if your concept of a guru is that he can be a zonal, ever-diminishing zealot engaging primarily in garbage peppered with spiritual drills and STILL pass off as a guru, then hats off to your teeny “brain”, I have nothing more to argue. And that’s not what SP taught!
I can tell you only one thing in this regard, you have a completely wrong understanding of the system that Srila Prabhupada put in. If you read the May 28th Conversation everything will clear (offcourse if you want it to be…..)
SDG: What is the relationship of the person who gives initiation and…
Prabhupada: He’s guru. He’s guru.
SDG: But he does it on your behalf.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is formality. Because in my presence one should not become guru, so on my behalf. On my order, amara ajnaya guru hana, be actually guru. But by my order.
Thats it. Anyway, if you want to continue it just email me. Where i can continue to talk to you, as I will be out for 2 weeks or so.
And as far as Bangalore temple is concerned, its was not a one man show or two man. It included a wide range of devotess who relentlesly worked and later were thrown out. If you really want to know the history of bangalore temple just ask a devotee who was there.
Your Servant,
Yudhistir
“On my order, amara ajnaya guru hana, be actually guru. But by my order.”
Well, SP is very clear here. ON HIS ORDER ONLY can one become a guru. The truth is he never ordered anyone to become gurus, just rtviks! I don’t know why you don’t want to come to the July 7 letter. You are deliberately avoiding SP’s written directive on future initiations after his physical departure, for reasons well known only to you.
Your quotes above b/w SP & SDG are no more than a Q&A session where SDG is clarifying his doubts on the status of a guru. That’s all. July 7 letter is Prabhupada’s FINAL WRITTEN statement on future initiations. By the way, we know SDG’s reputation as a “guru”. Good Lord,what a mockery he was and you still want to justify the Illuminati. Pitiable!!
Coming to the Bangalore temple,SP is the spiritual master. If someone has a problem with that, it is better for both him & the inmates to stay separately. And why not, there are 600-odd ISKCON temples with the Illuminati, providing shelter to people. So it is not difficult for one to survive. I don’t understand what the grief is all about.
First of all if you need to know that the words of a acharya are non different from him. and more over they are not a Q and A session as you say but are actually the instructions of Srila Prabhupada (Which you don’t want to accept). As far as the letter its July 9th 1977 and NOT july 7th ( and Which H.H Tamal Krishna Goswami WROTE). Anyway, you need to understand the letter in its context of action and not generalize it to your taste. Its not that you accept sastra where meat eating is allowed and reject the remaining.
You says it was a Q&A session between SDG and Srila Prabhupada, but didn’t Srila Prabhupada earlier mention in dozens of places and did not devotees ask that earlier which “needed” 23 GBC men come to ask that question. You just want to avoid that point and not accept it. and It was Srila Prabhupada who was answering the questions and not other devotees.
Moreover I don’t think you still know about the changing faces of ritvik mayavad. First there was this IRM group by Krishna Kant prabhu, of which Madhu Pandit prabhu was very much aware, but then you know Bangalore temple was not “CONSTRUCTED”. Construction done, MP prabhu aligns to Ritvik and says GBC is not correct (Due to the fact that GBC IS THE ULTIMATE MANAGING AUTHORITY). Joins IRM, Elected Chairman and Bangalore temple is their world “head quarters” for IRM. IRM forms a World Body Gives interview for various sites and magazines as Chairman for IRM and the Body says the TFO is the Final conclusion, accept it or get thrown out. (What a dictatorship). But then MP prabhu starts initiating “on behalf of” Srila Prabhupada which irks the IRM founders. Say MP prabhu to stop it. MP prabhu replies that they are weakend preachers and he has the right to initiate. IRM doesn’t accept this. Leads to break away. And also did you ever wonder, Krishna Kant prabhu has been associated with teachings of Srila Prabhupada for more that a decade and half, but why didn’t he accept initiation from some one like MP prabhu or Kapindra Swami? and nor do his elite members do so.Think over it. You will see things clear.
Now lets analyze this, the person who was instrumental for the foundation of IRM, wrote TFO, which every one considers as the ritviks authoritative book and who publishes magazine every now and then says that MP prabhu is not correct. So, Later Bangalore breaks away from IRM, uses its influence and makes other temples break away.
Later MP prabhu comments on IRM as “IRM are simply good when it comes to writing papers but they have no ability to work with people.” Now here is its ex-head speaking about it.
This situation is more of a hilarious joke than the “truth”. IRM fights with GBC over initiating gurus, but then IRM fights with its own members on “wrong initiation”. What are the Ritviks then fighting for?Y ou first of all argue a point, then among yourselfs you again argue that my point is correct and yours wrong. What else can be a greater situation than this?
Moreover seems like you still don’t want to study the past of Bangalore temple how hundreds of devotees worked selflessly 24 hours a day to make it what its. But then you get thrown out, what a great way to honor isn’t it?. Again i request you to not divert and answer the point.
Whoever has seen the temple and MP prabhu from the beginning days knows very well that its not a struggle between ritviks and GBC, its just MP prabhu’s fight with ISKCON over the property. More over i suggest you to study the dubious “Registration” where he makes HIMSELF AS LIFE TIME CHAIRMAN, which means he can’t be removed by anyone for any reason until he steps down. Just Beautiful, they are proud of “Implementing” DOM, but where is it mentioned in DOM that properties can be controlled as if they owned by him.
These students, who are initiated from me, all of them will act as I am doing. Just like I have got many Godbrothers, they are all acting. Similarly, all these disciples which I am making, initiating, they are being trained to become future spiritual masters. ( Detroit, July 18, 1971)
You, all my disciples, everyone SHOULD become spiritual master.
(London, August 22, 1973)
I want to see my disciples become bona fide Spiritual Master and spread Krishna consciousness very widely, that will make me and Krishna very happy
(SPL Tusta Krsna, December 2, 1975)
So far designation is concerned, the spiritual master AUTHORIZES every one of his disciple” (29th June 1972)
“I wish that in MY ABSENCE ALL MY DISCIPLES BECOME BONDAFIDE SPRITIUAL MASTERS and spread this krishna consciousness movement”
SPL to Madhusudana 2nd November 1967
Goto http://backtoprabhupada.com/
to find all this list of instructions and make your life a success.
Your Servant,
Yudhistir
Yudhistir,
Are you trying to say that SP, a bonafide acarya appointed/is appointing, dimishable “saksad haritvenas”, suspendable “haritvenas” and child molester “haritvenas”? Sorry to ask but are you in your proper senses?
Your justification on the Jul9 letter is very flimsy. TKG clearly writes & SP signs that all disciples initiated henceforth are SP’s disciples!! Please find me a stmt in that letter that says the initiated disciples are the rtvik’s disciples. This is a written directive to the institution rather than a discussion. We discuss a lot of things in day-to-day life, both trivial & serious but a written directive puts the FINAL OUTCOME into writing!
Also, by picking on MPP or IRM or any anti-bogus GBC set up you cannot question SP being the ultimate spiritual authority in ISKCON. Rtvik system is a MANAGERIAL SYSTEM to facilitate smooth initiations and that doesn’t mean the rtvik’s take SP’s place as diksa gurus. Pls understand that rtvik & diksa guru are poles apart!!!
Dear Prabhus,
I do not understand why you devotees fight endlessly. These fights do not lead to any conclusion.
Please continue practicing Krishna consciousness as your heart directs you. If you really have faith in Krishna, you must understand that every thing is going as per Krishna. Krishna directs different devotees differently.
Only consequence of arguments is arrogance and loss of faith. I know Vedanta Chaitanya from the time he came to ISKCON. He is nice devotee. He is serving as per his capacity. I never seen ISKCON Hyd. But I heard It was much worse before him.
Similarly Bangalore devotees are also trying to do their best of service as they believe it. So no need to blame them for anything. Without Krishnas grace they can not do whatever they have done.
So do not blame anyone because Krishna is behind everything. All we have to do is practice what we believe. Chant Hare Krishna and never criticize any one who is chantin Harekrishna.
You might see some faults with everyone in the world. We are have imperfections. But as long as he chant sincearly, he should be respected.
Krishna himself tells in Gita
Apichet suduracharo bhajate mam ananya bhak
sadhurevapi mantavyam
and khipram bhavati dharmatma
I know most of the Bangalore devotees in person. They are sincear. So please respect them. I do not appreciate their ideas. But they deserve respect.
They helped me to develop Krishna consciousness and also spoilied my Krishna consciousness with lot of criticism arguments. I lost faith finally on whole ISKCON. I know how difficult it is to regain the faith. So let us not waste our lives by engaging in criticism and arguments.
Dear Sri Hari Prabhu,
First of all you need to answer the previous points, which you are evading. I’m not trying to pick on any group or organization. I’m just presenting the facts as they are. You do need to think about it.
First the pioneers of Ritvikism said that Srila Prabhupada established only ritvik system till a realized soul would appear who would become his successor, then came the Krishna Kant prabhu era where they said the Srila Prabhupada established the system forever and no one is to succeed him. But we can not officiate because only GBC is empowered to do so (That is from the people who reject GBC for everything else). Then came Madhu Pandit prabhu era, where he broke up from IRM and started initiating him self who once propagated the IRM theory and later didn’t accept it?
Just think, WHY didn’t KK prabhu get himself initiated even after nearly 17 years from someone like Madhu Pandit prabhu or so. Think…..
So first be clear on what is Ritvikism then try propagate it.
You seem to lack the history knowledge of ISKCON, I recommend you to go through it. On July 7th H.H.Tamal Krishna Maharaj, brought the issue of initiate backlog to Srila Prabhupada who then instructed to make the previously named person (May 28) who would be the “regular gurus”, to do that as his health was extremely delicate and the karma of the disciples would be heavy. This conversation was later put by Tamal Krishna Maharaj into a letter.
So this is what it is, it was not meant for a eternal system. It just just to clear the backlog of disciples. This is seen in the converasation itself where Srila Prabhupada talks on the current situation and not a mood or sense of after his departure, Such as this :
SRILA PRABHUPADA: India, I am here. We shall see. In India, Jayapataka
And moreover Srila Prabhupada HIMSELF expressed that he may resume initiations if his health recovered even in October that is two and half months after the July 9 letter rpoving again that Ritvik system is not forever.
Srila Prabhupada: And if by Krishna’s grace I recover from this condition, then I shall begin again, or I may not be pressed in this condition to initiate. It is not good.
October 18, 1977
Even if you say , “I don’t care, I will still accept only that letter as Final”, then
Taking “henceforward” to mean literally forever, never will the rtvik-guru system come to an end. By this version of the doctrine, even should an uttama-adhikari someday appear, he will never initiate disciples of his own. At most, he will serve merely as a rtvik. For according to this version of the doctrine, Srila Prabhupada is the final member of the disciplic succession. The succession has come to an end. Srila Prabhupada is the only guru forever after. Henceforward, all new devotees will be his disciples, through his appointed rtviks.
And since we’re insisting that “henceforward” must mean literally forever, we must apply it not merely to a selected portion of what Srila Prabhupada’s appointment letter says but to the letter in its entirety.
“Temple presidents may henceforward send recommendation for first and second initiation to whichever of these eleven representatives are nearest their temple. After considering the recommendation, these representatives may accept the devotee. . . The newly initiated devotees are disciples of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, the above eleven senior devotees acting as his representative.”
If we’re being literal, as the argument says we must, then let’s be literal. Though the letter says that Srila Prabhupada has “so far” given a list of eleven rtviks, he NEVER added to the list. So this is it. The only authorized rtviks are THESE eleven. There is no mention that any of them may ever be REMOVED or REPLACED, nor is there any mention of any successor. Nor does Srila Prabhupada provide that the list may be ALTERED by the GBC. Henceforward, these eleven. So now find out where they are and get initiated from them or in next life time still keep searching in which loka are they in and go there to get initiated.
So if your argument is true, then so is this. WHY do you apply the forever only to the part YOU DESIRE and leave out other things and fabricate things, why don’t you accept it fully?
Also about appointing “non-qualified” gurus, then explain me what does “falldown” mean? To fall from stairs, you need to be on them. If you never were on the stair, then how can you fall down from the stair? So to fall down from the Spiritual position, you need to be in that position. Thats what falldown means, At a time you were in a superior position and later came down.
If the Jiva’s were never with Krishna how can we fall?
So at the based time they were in the situated strongly in their Spiritual vows. Moreover if you are not qualified to lift your self up in Spiritual platform its NOT your Guru’s falut it YOUR fault.
“The Māyāvāda philosophy must be considered insane. This especially applies to a Vaiṣṇava who reads the Śārīraka-bhāṣya and considers himself to be one with God. The Māyāvādī philosophers have presented their arguments in such attractive, flowery language that hearing Māyāvāda philosophy may sometimes change the mind of even a mahā-bhāgavata, or very advanced devotee.”
C.C Adilila 7.110
“Not only does the illusory energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead act on the conditioned soul within this material world, but sometimes it also acts on the most advanced learned scholars, who factually know the constitutional position of this material world through realization. As soon as someone thinks, “I am this material body (ahaḿ mameti [SB 5.5.8]) and everything in relationship with this material body is mine,” he is in illusion (moha). This illusion caused by the material energy acts especially on the conditioned souls, but it sometimes also acts on liberated souls as well. A liberated soul is a person who has sufficient knowledge of this material world and is therefore unattached to the bodily conception of life. But because of association with the modes of material nature for a very long time, even liberated souls sometimes become captivated by the illusory energy due to inattentiveness in the transcendental position.”
SB 5.18.4
“A spiritual master must be very careful in this regard. Such business is going on all over the world. The spiritual master does not accept a materially opulent disciple just to advertise the fact that he has such a big disciple. He knows that by associating with such viṣayī disciples, he may fall down. One who accepts a viṣayī disciple is not a bona fide spiritual master. Even if he is, his position may be damaged due to association with an unscrupulous viṣayī.”
C.C Madhya lila 24.330
You ask me a line from the letter where Srila Prabhupada tells that they are his disciple, I ask you give atleast ONE instance in Srila Prabhupada’s lifetime where Srila Prabhupada tells he is going to remain the Initiating guru forever. On the contrary Srila Prabhupada always instructed his disciples to become the future initiating gurus. Its you who is disobeying the instructions of Srila Prabhupada. You don’t accept Srila Prabhupada, his representatives, his formed body GBC? so who is disobeying? Its just that you want to do what your mind wants to and to justify it fabricate a theory and propagate.
I hope atleast in this letter you will answer all my points.
Thank you.
Yours in the Service of Srila Prabhupada, ISKCON and Vaishnavas,
Yudhistir
I have to agree with guys against Yudhistir, ISKCON Hyderabad is a mess and I visit that place almost everyday. The state of affairs are pathetic compared to Bangalore or any other center.
I know this guy Yudhistir, he’s not even a devotee or anything. Doesn’t live in the temple, follow the regs, do any service. He just argues for ISKCON because his father happens to be an ISKCON TP, and so that he can feel like he is actually smart and knows something. A complete hypocrite to be here writing about whats right or wrong. Do some service for any temple, ritvik or not, before you start talking….
In the end we’re all Fools! Wasting our precious time arguing with these fanatical jokers about what was said in 1977 and or about whose chappal stand is better, or should I have a dead guru or a live one.
For god’s sake, do what matters, don’t waste time running around in loops, nitpicking and finger pointing. You guys call yourselves Vaisnavas?
Dear KC Das,
I’m happy you know. I never claimed or will claim to be a devotee. What I do for the temple or anyone doesn’t need to be judged on a internet by some one, who knows how PURE IS HE?
What I do Krishna and Srila Prabhupada know. Let me tell you, going by your message, looks like you haven’t got a understanding still about Srila Prabhupada teachings. I follow the priniciple or chant my rounds, Krishna knows and will treat me accordingly.
And further look, I did’nt go out making a website blaspheming devottes,so try to send the message to the persons who needed to be: The Moderators
If you are so interested why don’t you meet me? We can do some service together, can’t we? or may be you can even train me up?